As suggested by Roh, lets make the blog more discussion oriented (about music) than confining ourselves to reading only periodic posts. This is the first unconventional post on this blog. Well, I just came across the following page
http://allmyideas.blogspot.com/2005/07/cine-music-tag-contd.html
in which the author describes a number of carnatic ragas and tamil film songs based on each of them. Do check it out. It's actually a nice compilation though I find certain facts erroneous. Never the less, its just a good beginning to spark an interesting discussion. I know its compree time for you on-campus guys, but you too can join during your free hours and later on during the hols. People away from campus, you can very well contribute :)
Hope this spawns an interesting and informative discussion.
18 comments:
Ummm! Well i've been unable to open that site, thanks to the screwed net. But then, the song that almost instantly pops in my head is 'Enthen Nengil Neengatha' in Nalinakanthi....master piece or what! And, a whole lot of songs in the movie 'Sindu Bhairavi'...Ah..Yesudas' golden era.
But then, when i hear to cinema song, i more than often concentrate more on the sophistication of the song ( background, drums, beats, visual effects OB) more than the raagam though, coz more often its an 'adulterated mix' of a lot of raagams.! Wht say?
That's quite true these days. But quality composers of yesteryears, the KVMs, MSV-Murthys have given us so much in terms of sheer classical brilliance for purists like us :). If you havent heard them, you have definitely missed something. Ofcourse, IR, Rahman and Vidhyasagar too are geniuses of recent times. Every other song that you get to hear from all these musicians would DEFINITELY have a pattern resembling some Ragam (maybe a few extraneous swarams then and there), esp. certain preludes and interludes and that makes the whole thing interesting from a classical analyst's point of view.
For instance, a 'punjai undu' would defnitely make you appreciate the essence of sudhha dhanyasi in it. When it comes to melodies, composers make them classical based. Just that I find such discussions always interesting, entertaining, informative and they make us THINK. When somebody says that a song x is tuned in ragam y, you would defnitely sit back and reaffirm yourself that it's true, thereby giving you a chance to understand that ragam more. And that's the whole point :)
:) ... hmm an interesting discussion commenced by " manjo " { if u remember :) } and the reference is a decent site . if i remember right vishwa had a big list of songs ; predominantly old ; corresponding to various ragas ( a more exhaustive one than this , u cud give that also as a refence thala ) . most of the claims of the blog are correct except some , i feel . some controversies were clarified by vodka , but some added by him . i still cannot understand how he cud classify " varaga nathikarai oram " to kalyani , it seems a very clear " bilahari " composition ( :confused ) except one sangathi where shankar mahadevan gives the prathi madhyamam touch . otherwise the prayogas are perfectly of bilahari ... some very standard and unique ones used . and there has been a small confusion abt " kannodu kanbathellam ( jeans ) " ; it is abheri and suddha dhanyasi predominantly abheri , and this is confirmed fact since in one of her interviews , nithyasree herself quoted these two ragas to be the composition .for all those who still hav a big doubt as to the technical differences between : abheri/bhimplas/karnataka devagandhari/ dhanasree ; heres the clarification ( its the best i can give on writing ) :
ABHERI is our " nagumomu " the standard carnatic classical . with respect to this i shall compare the others and mention the differecnces if any .
- BHIMPLAS : almost the same as abheri except that, a hindustani origin, bhimplas has the flexibility of usage of the suddha dhaivata ( chinna dha ,d1) . the carnatic has had many influences of hindutani over its own style and thats why we can see the prayogas used mutually in concerts. MSG, Ganesh-Kumaresh, and many others who hav a background of hindusthani use certain prayogas of the bhimplas into abheri but cautiously enough to avoid the odd 'dha'. note : the uses by MSG is very specific to those songs which have been composed in bhimplas and not blindly adulterated. certain prayogas of the bhimplas due to the presence of the unique 'dha' gives a shade of durbari at times, that can be the hint to finding out wheter the raag is abheri or bhimplas.
another imp. prayoga i wud like to stress upon is - n2 s m1 that comes in " bhajare " in bhajare re manasa ( mysore vasudevachar ) , this prayoga is specific to bhimplas , but well within the limits of abheri and hence has been incorporated in abheri also . so much so that bhimplas is accepted as hindustani version of abheri literally , because its something like ; abheri is a subset of bhimplas- the superset.
songs of this category cud be :
1)"eli re eli" - "yaadein" ( hrithik , kareena , subhash ghai, not the old one)
2)"kismat se tum" - "pukar" ( anil kapoor, madhuri )
{ the prayoga mentioned just above is used in this song when sonu nigam sings the words " ye sheesha " later in the song.}
an example in the classical songs is " vellai thamarai " i which - veenai selvam ; is sung as n2 s m1; though generally the cassettes print the raga as abheri
- karnataka devagandhari : if u ask me .... its just another name to abheri ... very very superimposing raga ... except that if u closely analyse the songs classified under this raga they have a unusual prayoga of - n2 r2 s ; which generally is not used in abheri . in abheri the usage is more of - n2 s g2 r2 s ; another dissimilarity comes in the names that hav used the ragas , abheri is tha name given by swami tyagaraja to his compositions, whereas karnataka devagandhari is the name given and used predominantly by sri muthuswami deekshithar, and considering that deekshithar had many influences of western , hindustani and many other forms of music , its not surprising the oarayogas are slighlty varying, but as far as the swara arohana avarohana go , its technically the same , the difference is i the prayoga only ( its something like : mandaveli and R A Puram have the same pin code , the difference lies in which side of a bridge one is ! ).
examples in this raga wud be :
1) " eppadi paadinaro " - suddhananda bharati ( if im right)
2) " kayarohanesam " - deekshithar
3) " panchashatpeettharoopini " - deekshithar
- dhanasree : as far as i know there are only two songs in this raga the second i dont remember and the first is the famous maharaja swathi thirunal thillana. the beauty of this raga is in avarohana it does not hav d2 ! but in its aarohana its present . so the prayoga is totally different when compared to all the above three but it cannot be identified easily, since d2 is present but in a diff. posn. furthermore - n2 s p ; prayoga is highly specific to this raga.
no cine songs as i see :)
so the very point vodka tries to establish seems wrong . the starting swarams of " kannodu kaanbathellam " is purely suddha dhanyasi ... with song in abheri and a touch where nithyasree sings - n2 s r2 ; in just one place .
im sorry vodka .... theres no dhanasree in that song .... and i cant see rahman putting a song in dhanasree of all ragas .... [ :) ] , too classically acute to handle .
thats that .
as far as the other ragas go ... i shall find some other time to comment ... rt now having a couple of exams. :)
please keep manojh and other pass outs engaged in some fruitfull discussions : manojh pleads .. im for it....
others interested please pour in .... let controversies and arguements crop up .... thats what incraeses our hand over any subject
hmmm manojh decentaaaa ??? :))))
idha!!..idha!!..idhathan naan edhirpathen.. :))
good one da ganesaaa...shall defintely jot down your technical points on my notebook.. :)
you are right..viswa did give us a bigger list. but most of the songs in that list were too old to have had heard. but definitely that's a very good list. will check to see if i have and post it. if anyone of you do have that list, please pass it on.
will make a list of additions(known to me) and post soon...
btw..whats the diff between bageshri and bageshwari.anyway similar? i also have doubt about kandukondain kandukondain being kathanakuthuhalam...i thot it sounded nalinakanthi like.. someone clarify please :)
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